Tuesday, November 23, 2004


This is something I haven't done before: below is an online debate I came across on soc.religion.christian. I thought the fellow writing was so good that I didn't want to keep it to myself, and thought I would share it with anyone interested. Here 'tis.

Forwarded from soc.religion.christian

>>Don't you care what the rest of the world thinks of you?

Does the rest of the world care what we think of them?

To some extent, they do. They have to, since we intrude on them all the time. We intrude all the more obnoxiously when we think we know what is right, and they are not doing it.

>>Don't you care what impact American foreign policy has on the rest of the planet?

Yes, we want the world to be a freer place.

I don't believe you. If we did, we would not have elected a man who has done more to undermine civil liberties than all his predecessors for so many years.

If we did, we would not have elected a leader who is determined to lead into disaster, ignoring all the mounting scientific evidence of global warming.

>>Does Iraq look like a success to anyone?

It's a bit early to tell.

Not according to the man we re-elected, it isn't. He is already calling it victory. Remember his victory speech after "major combat phase is over"? This is one of the many untruths he tells that announce to the world what an un-christian ruler he really is.

But this too is very unchristian behavior. Remember:

Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD,
but those who act faithfully are his delight. (Pro 12:22 RSVA)


The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD,
the words of the pure are pleasing to him. (Pro 15:26 RSVA)

How can he claim to have such pure speech after this? Only by sinking even deeper in his deception of the American public, as he did by spreading rumours through the "Swift Boat Veterans for 'Truth'" while denying any connection to them. Only by blinding himself with his amazing arrogance, such as when he claimed in the final debate to not have made any mistakes!

But how can you miss what this reveals about him? How can you not shudder to think of it, when you remember the Proverb:

Every one who is arrogant is an abomination to the LORD;
be assured, he will not go unpunished. (Pro 16:5 RSVA)

Those of us who don't want to share in that punishment, did not vote for him.

>>Doesn't it bother you that he s alienated every friend you have?

Fair weather friends, that cave in to terrorists and take bribes from monsters.

But they are NOT 'fair weather friends'. That is one of the big lies that certain people keep repeating over and over until we believe them. Only the case of Spain gets close to what you claim. But even in their case, it is unfair.

Their feeling, after all, was that they were not losing casualties in a war against terrorism, but rather being unfairly targeted on account of American misdeeds in Iraq. And now that the bipartisan 9-11 Commission has confirmed that Saddam has nothing to do with 9-11, the rest of the world agrees with them. Only those with a bag over their heads can fail to see the evidence that Spain was right.

>>Prior to this, it was American policy and the American government that was so universally hated around the world.

Yes, we had the audacity to be strong, free and prosperous.

And use our strength to deny that freedom and prosperity to anyone else.

Remember the assassination of Allende? The bombing of Cambodia? Remember who sold all those weapons to Saddam Hussein before he suddenly became our enemy? Yet instead of repenting of this wickedness, what does he do? He calls down condemnation from heaven by ignoring the proverb:

It is an abomination to kings to do evil,
for the throne is established by righteousness. (Pro 16:12 RSVA)

But no one can "establish by righteousness" while resorting to unnconstitutional Supreme Court interference to get elected, fighting against civil liberties, and lying to the voting public to lead us into an illegal war. Yet he has done all of these.

But as if this wasn't bad enough, by ignoring the evidence concerning global warming, and pursuing oil above all else, he is again denying that freedom and prosperity to anyone else. After all, it is primarily outside of the US that global warming is already destroying people's homes and livelihoods. And by the time it does the same in the US, the criminals here in the US who ignored it in the crucial phase will either be already dead, or moved inland and to high ground, coming up with schemes to make themselves richer off the plight of those losing their homes.

>>More sympathy for Bin Laden... More attacks on American institutions... More isolation.

Not from those who don't tremble at his every threat, as if that didn't encourage him. Trust me, he will attack those he thinks can be persuaded to appease him.

You miss the point. He will attack with even more ferocity against those who are stubborn in wickedness, and call that stubbornness 'steadfastness'.

>>How blind can you dumb rednecks in middle-America be, not to see this?

Sighted enough to see that Chamberlin and appeasement failed in the past and will in the present as well.

But not sighted enough to see that there is a lot of territory between the disastrous appeasement of Chamberlain and the stubborn recklessness of the US. We left that vast territory unexplored, and chose an incredibly foolish course of action when a wise course was called for.

>>If you get hit again, or your economy goes into a deep depression, the American people will be getting exactly what they deserve!

If we go into a depression the rest of the world will likely go into the dark ages, since our enterprise sustains most of the world's economy.

You are really out of touch. The rest of the world is now more independent of our economy than ever before. It is now easy to see America sinking into a deep depression while the rest of the world is barely touched. Where do you think all the economic productivity is nowadays? It is in Asia, not the US. That is why we have been losing so many manufacturing jobs to them for 20 years. And now we have been losing even high-tech jobs to Asia!

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